Atheism, Agnosticism, and Why Atheism is Growing! Atheists and Agnostics talk!
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Why Atheism is Growing...
Defining Atheism. Atheists, Agnostics Defined
To be an atheist means that one believes there is no God. One might believe that aliens came down to the earth and mixed with the indigenous species and that's how man came to be (Raliens), but they still believe that there isn't a personal God. Some Atheists might believe that there is no God while other Atheists might believe that there is some sort of intelligent life force but it isn't a God who has a personal connection with people and cares about them. Still others atheists might simply have a lack of belief that there is a God. They might not be so bold as to believe there is no God so it might be closer to agnosticism than to atheism. Agnostics generally say they don't know if there is a God or not. To define atheism, one simply has to think of someone who does not believe there is, or who has a lack of belief in, a God who is personally interested in humanity.
Discrimination Against Atheists
There's a lot of ignorance that surrounds Atheism and Atheists. Some think that atheists are evil people who commit lots of evil crimes. Ironically, percentage wise, there are fewer criminal atheists than there are criminal religious people. Atheists also tend to have better ethics than religious people. (That's why they have fewer people in jail.) However, despite all this, atheists are often denied employment as a result of their perspective. They are also often victimized by religious people and treated very badly.
Discrimination against Atheists
Defining Atheist, Theist, Gnostic and Agnostic.
Just to make sure that the differences between the words below are understood, I'm putting them here so that there is no confusion as I talk about these things.
A Theist is someone who believes in a God, regardless of which God or which religion.
An Atheist is someone who doesn't believe that there is a God.
A Gnostic is someone who believes all knowledge is knowable.
An Agnostic is someone who says he doesn't know.
World Famous Atheists
Number of Atheists in America
In America, 1.6% are atheists, 2.4% agnostics and 12.1% simply secular.Essentially, though, whether one is an atheist, an agnostic, or 'merely' secular, all of them live their lives as if there is no God, for that is what they believe. That means that 16.1% of Americans have no belief in a personal God.
Word Famous Atheists
Here are some world famous atheists. I publish them in order to demonstrate that many people that are admired universally for their good deeds and contributions to mankind are not religious and have no belief in God. In other words, they did not become evil because they had no belief in a personal God. Also, it is assumed by many that these are Christians just because they do good things.
Some World Famous Atheists
Douglas Adams, Bob Geldof, Woody Allen, Isaac Asimov, Ingmar Bergman, Richard Branson, Billy Joel, James Cameron, John Lennon, Ricky Gervais, George Carlin, Richard Dawkins, Harlan Ellison, Francis Crick, Robert Heinlein, Larry Flynt, Jodie Foster, Ernest Hermingway, Katherine Hepburn, John Malkovich, Diane Keaton, Richard Leakey, Bruce Lee, H.P. Lovecraft, Bill Maher, Barry Manilow, Arthur Miller, Jack Nicholson, Keanu Reeves, Terry Pratchett, Steven Pinker, Joss Whedon, Gene Roddenberry, George Soros, Alan Turing, Gore Vidal, Kurt Vonnegut, Jr, and Steve Wosniak.
Some World Famous Agnostics
Antonio Banderas, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Clarence Darrow, Charles Darwin, Richard Dreyfuss, Umberto Eco, Carrie Fisher, Steven Jay Gould, Bob Hoskins, Larry King, Larry Niven, Sean Penn, Bertrand Russel, Carl Sagan, Uma thurman, Ted Turner,
Wrong Beliefs About Atheists
Suppositions About Atheists.
Atheists Don't Know the Bible!
One supposition is that Atheists have never heard the gospel, and if they did, that they didn't understand it. Actually, research shows that atheists know the bible better than Christians do. Many atheists had parents who were pastors or priests. Ironically, the kids of pastors and priests know the bible and the religion so well that they are aware of the many conflicts, improbabilities, and impossibilities. That's why they became atheists.
Atheists Know the Bible But Don't Understand It.
Alternatively, there is the belief that if they did hear it and did understand it, then they must be downright evil. Religious people cannot consider that atheists might have a very good reason for thinking that religion is a myth because that would challenge their own beliefs.
Atheists are Terrible, Evil People.
That Atheists must do terrible things like, maybe, rob banks, or worship the devil. Actually, most atheists are exemplary citizens and, in terms of rationality, have made far greater contributions to humanity than religious people.
Jesus Never Existed. The Facts.
- Welcome to Enlightenment! Religion the Tragedy of Mankind - Articles by Kenneth Humphreys
Uncompromising exposure of the counterfeit origins of Christianity and of the evil it has brought to the world. (Thanks to Marlon C. for pointing me to this website.)
Why Atheists Do Not Believe in God.
Secular History Does Not Give One Ounce of Proof for Christ
No Scientific Proof for the Existence of Jesus
There is not one bit of scientific evidence for the existence of Christ. The fact that there are early manuscripts telling the story of Thor, the God of Thunder, does not mean that Thor existed. The fact that there are 'holy' books, far older than the bible, that tell of Shiva, the Hindu God, does not mean that Shiva existed or does exist. However, lots of people believe that these Gods exist. The only early sources of Jesus was the Roman Catholic Church and the Greek Orthodox Church. It amuses me no end that people want to say that these churches do not have the truth. Well, where else would all the documentation come from? There isn't anything else available!
Science has Far Better Explanations Than Religion Does!
Science gives far better explanations for what is happening around us. The fact that there is such bitter resentment against evolution is not because there's insufficient evidence for evolution. At this point, it's pretty solid. The real issue is that if it's true, it exposes religion for what it is - a lot of old wives tales. People who are invested in religion because they need to believe that their lives have meaning and because they need forgiveness for the terrible things they do, don't want to live without that belief. The thought terrifies them. So they have a vested interest in not believing science.
How Prayer Works
Why People Become Atheists
Why People Become Atheists
God Doesn't Answer Prayer Because There is No God.
God doesn't answer prayers. Religious people will often say that if God doesn't answer prayers, that's because the answer is no. Actually, that comment is rather like saying if the stone does't reply when you speak to it, it's because the stone didn't find you interesting. The reason God doesn't reply to prayer is because there is no God. Also things work out just as frequently for atheists as they do for religious people. It wasn't that God 'answered' the prayers of atheists because atheists prayed. It's just because in this big world, if one works at certain things, one sometimes manages to make things go one's way! Other times, well, just a chain of coincidence. They happen to both atheists and religious people Only religious people call it God while atheists call it coincidence.
Terrible Things Happen to People That are More Easily Explained Through Science and Natural Law.
There are terrible things that happen in spite of prayer by millions of people. Take the Tsunami that happened in December 26, 2004 or the the one that happened in Japan earlier this year. Think of the Holocaust or the terrible bombings that take place from time to time. These things happen as a result of cause and effect. There's an earthquake in the middle of the sea. It creates a tsunami. It's just bad luck that there are people in its way. A child is born and, either genetically, or through brain chemistry, or through environment, he develops the perverse desire to kill and maim others. He does. Again, it's cause and effect. He is what he is, and other people suffer from it. None of this has anything to do with God. Every single thing that happens in this world is the result of previous actions. Mostly there are so many different intertwining threads that it's virtually impossible to work out what triggered some things. And that's okay. We're midgets in the Universe. However, God has never rescued anybody from any of these events. Nobody ever saw a bunch of people rise into the air to escape the Tsunami. Nobody ever saw an Angel of the Lord march up to Hitler and tell him to stop immediately. Sure there have been some narrow, almost miraculous escapes, but they were all feasible escapes well within our current scientific understanding.
Becoming an Atheist Within an Hour...
Outcome of Becoming an Atheist
One thing many atheists believe when they finally 'come out' is an extraordinary sense of peace. it's also a tremendous burden off one's shoulders because one can just live one's life in the best way possible without having to say six hail Mary's, pointing one's feet south while sticking out one's tongue, or simply having to pretend that one is celibate. That's a really big one. It's absolutely stunning how many religious people have sex outside marriage. However, I guess, it doesn't count...
Some Facts About Atheists
- Atheists know more about the bible than Christians do. In fact, they know more about religion than religious people do. In any religious ‘test’, atheists come out tops.
- Atheists have a higher I.Q. than people who are religious. In fact, there is a direct correlation between degree of religion and I.Q.
- Atheists tend to have a far higher ethical mode of behavior than religious people do. Many of them come from fundamental religious homes, are the children of ministers, priests, etc. Others grew up in environments where ethics and morals were very important. Their rejection of a ‘God’ wasn’t the result of a desire to do evil, but of a sincere desire to know God and finding there wasn’t one. It was the courage to admit the obvious.
- Atheists are looked down upon, belittled, scorned, called ungodly, and many other names. Ironically, most of the modern world is made possible by atheists. For instance, most people who work in the computer industry and on creating the internet are atheists. Of course, there are exceptions. However, just because there are exceptions doesn’t mean that the majority believe in God. It is the intellectual and creative output of the top brains (most of whom are atheists) that are responsible for the amazing inventions and discoveries of our time in history.
Who Wrote the Bible and Why It Matters
- Bart D. Ehrman: Who Wrote The Bible and Why It Matters
Many of the books of the New Testament were written by people who lied about their identity, claiming to be a famous apostle -- Peter, Paul, or James. In modern parlance, that is a lie.
Learn About Atheism
Do you have difficulty believing in God? Are there questions that aren’t adequately answered in your life? Is it possible that your belief in God is more about a desire to believe that you are being taken care of, and that the world does make sense, than there being any real claim to there being a personal God? Remember that atheism isn't denying that there are unanswerable questions about life. It is saying that there isn't a personal God who takes care of you personally. Take the first step towards peace of mind. Contact an atheist near you. Start living life with confidence. Understand the natural world. Understand science before it becomes an antiquity butchered to death by superstition and ignorance.
- American Atheists | Welcome Free Thinkers
This is the official site of the American Atheists, an organization that defends the civil rights of Atheists, and calls for the total, absolute separation of church and state.
- Ask An Atheist
Do you know someone who is an atheist? Want to know what atheists REALLY believe? Ask questions and get answers. It might not be what you expect.
Do You Have the Courage to Confess Your Doubts About God?
See results without votingMany different stories same as Jesus
- Why Won\'t God Heal Amputees?
Is God real, or is he imaginary? It is one of the most important questions you can ask yourself.If God is real and if God inspired the Bible, then we should worship God as the Bible demands. We should certainly post the Ten Commandments in our courth
Are You Proud to be an Atheist?
See results without voting- War in the name of atheism - The Oatmeal
*Note from the author:* I wrote this as a retort to the feedback I received about yesterday's comic, but also because I wanted an excuse to draw the Nazis going to war in the name of math and facial hair. *Another note from the author:* Hitler's
The Pastor who is an Atheist - and can't tell her congregation!
- From Minister To Atheist: A Story Of Losing Faith : NPR
Teresa MacBain admits that when she was ordained as a minister, she had big questions. "In reality," she says, "as I worked through them, I found that religion had so many holes in it, that I just progressed through stages where I couldn't believe it
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@ Suburban Poet.
Actually, those statements are not my opinions. They are validated research. People of both groups were given I.Q. tests and given actual bible tests. Google it. Educate yourself.
Why would anyone feel the need to research whether they are a superior human being... it smacks of massive insecurities....have a good day....
This is not about insecurity. This is a fight to stop the prejudice against atheism.
Sophia Angelique - You certainly have an interesting name for an Atheist.
Being brought up in a Catholic family and going to church didn't make me believe in God as portrayed in the bible.At,least the old testament bible.You,know the passages where God says it's ok to kill certain people.So,many wars were started because it was QUOTE "GODS WILL".
In ,fact I was never given a bible to read for myself.although my mother had an old bible that was written in some incomprehensable old English.
I have an old hardcopy of the king james new testament which has some interesting references to the end times,which I believe we are living in now.The end of old ways of living,and the beginning of the new ways we will live.
Certain people seem to be under some kind of hypnotic trance where they simply believe ,beacause the "GERU" leader of theirs says such and such!
That ,said; I do believe that there is a "Source" from which we all came. I THINK ,THERFORE I AM. kind of mindset.You cannot deny the fact that you exist,are intelligent ,are here for a reason,and there must be some intelligent designer somewhere.Wheather we call it GOD or anything else makes no difference.If,we are truely the offspring of this intelligent designer,then we must also ,be gods children or potential children ,seeing how far we are from the perfection we associate with GOD or what we see as the "Source".
Belief in randomness is not science ,elements do not interact with eachother randomly.They may mix randomly ,but they do not interact randomly.
Science is ,not random. Genetics can be random ,but it's limited by species.
I recall,thousands of years ago in Egypt they had hundreds of different gods to which they gave money to in order to be the gods good graces.Then came a pharaoh who delared that there is only one god.He wasn't necessarily talking about the sun,but that is what his new religion was symbolised by the sun up in the sky.His new religion was a religion of peace ,of treating your fellow man as brothers,etc. Up,until then ,the "gods" were consulted by the preists,who interpeted what the "gods " say. Much like present day church leaders do today.T.V. Evangelists for example.
Do you believe George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, John Adams, and Cleopatra existed? If so, why? You haven't seen them.
I'm not knocking you- we are given free will. But I would appreciate a response.
Lastly, your hub would have been better, if the intelligence factor wasn't added. It wasn't a very smart thing to do, if you're trying to persuade people.
@someonewhoknows. Your response is really difficult to respond to. You might like to read:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Religion-vs-Science-The-Mo
@Edoka. Yes, I do believe that George Washington existed. For the simple reason that there is evidence - lots of it - that he did exist. However, there is no evidence that JChrist existe. The reason for your confusion is that you do not understand exactly what evidence is.
You might also like to read:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Religion-vs-Science-The-Mo
You say my hub would have persuaded more if I left the intelligence factor out? Why? I'd think most people would like to be on the side of the smart guys, wouldn't they? :)
It took you 53 years?
I guess you just weren't paying close attention :)
@Pcunix. Well, I actually wavered. At 20, I was convinced there was no God. Then I had a near death experience. Unhappily, I am 'mediumsistic'. I tried denied many of my paranormal experiences but there came a point where I couldn't deny them anymore. At that point, I had to deal with it. That took another decade. I finally found other explanations. At that point, I had a solid picture that hung together.
Many people have religious experiences. Those experiences are quite real. I had many of them. Conventional logic attributes them to 'God.' I guess in the days I grew up, there weren't any other explanations.
Hi, It seems like your atheism is a reaction against Christianity, rather than an embracing of an alternative. After rejection of that particularly destructive paradigm, isn't there a step beyond Atheism? A step toward some other cosmology and spiritualism?
FOR someonewhoknows: Why do you have to believe anything like that? 'We don't know' is the answer. So, why on earth would we need to beleive in any designer based on mythology, a badly written book, and a belief system that has been very useful to the leaders of countries in controlling people. Why say, "We don't know, therefore it must be God"? And, perceptions7 "a step beyond atheism"? Spiritualism? Are you kidding? You think people can't step outside and enjoy a beautiful day without thinking there's something religious about it? Come on now.
I have to admit, Sophia, that the video of the girl who was discriminated against at the public school made me cry. When I was a Christian, I noticed that the meanest people I knew were Christian, and it's Christians who claim they are more moral--what a joke!
@perceptions7. Stories are always much longer and more complex than what one is able to write in the words allocated. No, my atheism isn't a reaction against Christianity. I have explored manye, many schools of thought. However, the most common religious experienace on these pages is Christianity, and that is why I speak to that majority. One always writes for the majority of readers.
@Beverly. That is exactly right. There are some incredibly nasty people that are Christians. Then, again, there are some incredibly nasty people that aren't. :) I guess being a Christian doesn't really make any changes in the places that matter.
So true!
I believe that God exists because there are too many things that persist with precision, like the solar system. The earth in particular- how massive it is; we can't tell that it is spinning; it's not too close or too far from the sun- perfect for humans.
How intricate the human body is- the healing power, how it grows; there seems to be profound intelligence within the design of these things- too much craftsmanship for happenstance.
In conclusion, there is nothing unintelligent about wanting
to believe in something greater, in wanting guidance. I come from famous musicians, physicians, and politicians; all believers in a higher power. It's asinine to think atheists are superior in intellect. The bulk of the world believes in God to some measure; hence, I don't need numbers from an atheist site to conclude that your 'intelligence' stance is inaccurate.
*Peace*
@ Edoka. There is a vast difference between a 'God' who cares for you and answers prayer and an impersonal, intelligent life force that may or may not be at the core of all that exists.
God is defined as an entity central to all religion that has a personal stake in the lives of the human species. It gives an after life, dispenses judgement to that species, causes pain in the life of that species with the direct purpose of enabling them to learn life lessons, etc.
Prime Cause, on the other hand, is something completely different to the God explanation.
On a very much smaller scale, if I decide to go build a house, it does not mean that I particularly care about what happens to that house for ever more. I could have built it because it served a temporary purpose for shelter. Once that purpose was served, I moved out and forgot about it.
Or just because the Queen of England is the head of State doesn't mean that she cares particularly for each individual in her kingdom, or that she has a plan for the life of each of her subjects.
It's one helluve jump to go from saying that the mathematical order of the universe needs to be explained in some way to saying that the mathematical reason for the universe means that every individual of the human species is cared for by a personal God who answers personal prayer.
I'm going to quote Einstein:
"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man."
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.""
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
"I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science. [He was speaking of Quantum Mechanics and the breaking down of determinism.] My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance -- but for us, not for God."
In line with most of the great minds on earth, Einstein was an atheist. That means he did NOT believe in a personal God.
Have you watched this video?
It is what you are saying.
I have had my struggles with the god idea for years, going first one way then another. I don't necessarily believe atheists are "better" - but I do think they are perhaps more able to take personal responsibility for their lives. An atheist can't say "it's god's will" or "the devil made me do it" as a famous cricketer once said to explain his moral lapse!
Thanks for a bold Hub which I really appreciate.
Love and peace
Tony
@Tony, it's a hard thing to 'come out' as an atheist, particularly in America where even George Bush said one couldn't be considered American if one was an Atheist! You're right when you say one has to take personal responsibility for one's life...
I believe there needs to be "more" of a responsibility taken in ones life rather than just having one's focus on personal material attainments. I believe we have a divine purpose in the sense of how we perceive life on a higher scale, in the sense of spiritual growth. I believe faith is the key that opens the door to what life has to offer in the spiritual realm. I believe we can study all the material we choose, but if that faith isn't there it will not be reveiled to us. I believe there is a purpose for everything under the sun. I have a hub called "A Divine Purpose" if you have some time to read it. There is so much more than what we see. I pray you find it. I am not here to judge you or condemn you for that is not my purpose. Take care~
@TimeHealsAll. That is the difference between a theist and an atheist. Most people do believe that there is a purpose and a divine god . The fact that they believe it doesn't make it true. Throughout history, when it comes to changing paradigmns, the majority have been wrong... It has generally been too tough for people to change a belief system that has been with them since birth.
I was thinking I had a purpose, but I got all agnostic, and couldn't decide
@ Scooter. That's so exciting! Without a purpose, you can join all those others without a purpose, and have a party. What fun! You can sleep late on Sunday as well. No church. :)
Very thorough and terrific hub. I especially agree that when you learn the history and details, most of the stories are overblown or simply not true according to various scientific accounts.
I believe there is still much to learn about our world and perhaps there is a stronger or higher power than we currently understand. However (in my opinion) none of the religions I know of seem to hold any type of accurate or even believable account that I could buy into.
@Edoka you've given some great points. Now to you Sophia Angelique, I believe you think you were CREATED OUT OF NOTHING WITHOUT A PURPOSE AND FOR NO PURPOSE? I respect that though it's a very sad position. Thanks.
@apologetics. I think taking the position that it must be God if one doesn't understand something is akin to a small child thinking that Father Christmas put the gifts under the Christmas tree because that's what he has been told.
Just as the small children accept things that they are told to them without critical judgment, so religious people accept explanations and don't use critical thinking and/or evaluation to determine what is a more likely explanation.
While a small child has neither a fully developed brain or an objective source of information and can, therefore, be forgiven for believing that it's Father Christmas who put the gifts under the tree, no such allowance can be made for adults who refuse to use critical thinking to evaluate religious dogma.
You might also like to see the difference between the way a religious person reasons and an atheist reaons.
I think that even worse than accepting without critical analysis certain unexplainable phenomena is to try to create bogus scientific facts or data that totally do not hold up to any scrutiny to give credibility in the physical or material world to things that are spiritual and it is my belief are not to be understood or explained by man in a rational way because they are not meant to be.This is one mistake I often see religious people make.
@mio. I think the drive to present some sort of evidence to prove the religious position is a result of the religion being threatened by evidence that undermines it. As someone once said, "Truth is sharper than a two edged sword."
It's not a new phenomenon. People used to be burned at the stake for believing the earth was round and not flat. Why? Because the bible said the earth was flat.
People were also killed because they said that the earth revolved around the sun and not the sun around the earth. Why? Because the bible said that the sun revolved around the earth.
Religious people have always killed and done their best to stop their religious dogma from being exposed for what it is...
Until the vast majority of the people can come to terms with the fact that we don't have all the answers and we may not have another life after this one, the dogged determination to avoid critical exmination of religious dogma will persist.
Then there is no lying poet." "I think not." "Well then, would it be thought fear of his enemies that he would lie? " "Far from it." " Would it be because of the folly or madness of his friends? " "Nay, no fool or madman is a friend of God." "Then there is no motive for God to deceive." " None." " So from every point of view" the divine and the divinity are free from falsehood." " By all means." " Then God is altogether simple and true in deed and world, and neither changes himself nor deceives others by visions or worlds or the sending of signs in waking or in dreams.
@Promethus. You lost me. Try simple English.
Well written, Sphia - thanks.
I do not find it surprising that atheists have a higher IQ, although I'm not quite so willing to say they are actually more intelligent. Few Christians have been taught to reason critically; rather they are taught to accept "facts" for no other reason than a priest says so. Were they taught to actually think and reason, if they learned the language of logic, they probably won't be Christian for long.
In addition, IQ tests measure, to some degree, accumulated knowledge and many Christians refuse to learn anything that might conflict with their religion as it might shake their faith or because the priest says differently and is always right.
@ Wilderness, you have some excellent points. Religious organisations generally discourage objective examination as all of them have too many holes to hold water.
I think I.Q. tests have fallen victim to politically correct dogma. There is a difference between I.Q. tests and apititude tests. I once did an I.Q. test that have required only the most basic of education - stick men and drawings, colors, basic arithmetic and writing and reading skills to grade 4 level. People were given as much as much time as they liked to finish it. You did need a brain, though to do that test! It was designed at Harvard by a Ph.D student.
The Mensa test has two tests and one can do either. The one involves spatial objects, logic exercises usually involving letters, shapes, and numbers, and vocabulary. The right brain one involves pictures, shapes, etc.
Those tests that involve memory, history, culture, etc. are aptitude tests.
Thanks for sharing why you are an athiest. Eye-opening Hub!
@TreasureofHeaven. Thank you for being open minded. :)
Religion is based in control and power. That's why there is Heaven and Hell in it's teachings. Reward vs damnation. Without the power to control it looses it's power over the masses. Further more, more wars have been fought in the name of religion than any other reason. From the time of the crusades to the Islamic wars of today, they all one central theme, follow us or die.
One last thing, the Bible today is composed of books that the church decided that coincided with it's teachings. Books that didn't support the churches teachings were destroyed or denied on heretical basis or claimed to be based on lies by it's authors. Religious scholars may dismiss this, but it's hard to dispute that history tells a different story.
@Cochran. Agreed. However, despite religion being used to control the masses, one has to look at why the masses have an implicit agreement to be controlled...
I great read. In high school I wanted to be a preacher. Attended church constantly. Then as I got older and a little wiser I realized Jesus/God was Santa Clause for grown ups. I just don't by into it. I have never been happier since personally declaring agnosticism as what I believe. I find Christians and ever other religion to be brainwashed into believing a fairytale.
@H Hiatt. The Santa Clause analogy is apt. And, yes, they are brainwashed. There's a process called soft brainwashing. It's why advertising is so powerful. When one hears something over and over again, the brain accepts it as truth, regardless of whether evidence to the contrary is staring us in the face.
@Sophia Angelique - I applaud your courage in writing this hub and your patience at dealing with the less than encouraging comments. I can find no reference to a number of high-profile people whose writing I think you might enjoy. May I suggest richarddawkins.net, hitchensweb.com and especially jesusneverexisted.com?
@Marlon C. Haven't read hitchensweb and jesusneverexisted.com. Thanks for the reference. Of course, I've got a copy of The God Delusion! :)
I didn't mention the books because I wanted to focus more on why I became an atheist. There's this belief system amongst the believing that atheists are godless because they are evil or ignorant. :) I wanted to dispel that.
@Sophia Angelique: ah yes, I just finished watching the ABC 20/20 video in which 'The Dawk' features heavily. It saddens me to learn of the hostility to which you and others like you have been subjected. I count myself very lucky to have grown up in the UK's most godless town :-)
@Marlon. yup. It's difficult. :) I miss London.
Great hub - I reached similar conclusions. From hanging out in the forums, it seems many atheists were previously very religious & know their bibles better than 'christians' (who think I am the devil) - all they do is confirm that walking away from it all was the best decision in my life. I have values and ethics. I couldn't handle the hypocrisy I observed in the church
Baileybear, despite growing up in a secular home, I was accustomed to solid ethics. I went to as great many churches in the period that I was a 'Christian'. It was the first time in my life I met malicious, jealous, ignorant people - who gossiped as well. I was 25 years old, at time time, and had never heard gossip - until I worked into a church of 'believing ' Christians. At this point in my life, when I meet religious people,I run a mile because, while there are exceptions, there are generally issues.
Greetings, Sophia! Provacative post. As one educated non-theist to another, let me say first that I enjoyed your post. You made some good points, which prompted the following thoughts...
(1) Atheism is simply non-belief in God as you say. Period. It's no different in that respect than non-belief in fairies. It's not a faith-based religion of God denial as many seem to think. I'm a non-theist simply because I don't find that the evidence for God's existence rises to a level I'd characterize as belief. I don't worship satan, don't eat children, and don't idolize Hitler. There's no compelling evidence, as you point out, that people of faith are any more ethical or moral than non-theists. This is sociology and statistics, plain and simple. In other words, one doesn't need religion to be moral.
(2) Having been an evangelical Christian at one time, I don't find my life any less meaningful now than I did as a Christian. A meaningful life is one with purpose. As a non-theist, I assign purpose to my own life rather than deriving purpose from a metaphysical being outside myself.
(3) Having studied what scholars say about the historical Jesus, I'm convinced that there was indeed an historical Jesus...sort of. However, the historical Jesus certainly wasn't the Christ of Faith of the Gospels. Briefly, although the Josephus passage has been corrupted, as you correctly state, many secular scholars think they can detect the non-corrupted fragment that the early Christian scribes edited. Also, I don't think we should categorically rule out the Gospels as containing historical material simply because they're religions books. Serious scholars like Bart Erehman, John Dominic Crossan, Marcus Borg, and Hans Kung, to name a few, are all convinced that the Christ of Faith portrayed in the Gospels was probably based (loosely) on an historical person...But here's the important point: even so, this doesn't mean that we can blindly accept what the Gospels tell us as historical fact. Like any other ancient sources, we should treat them with a critical eye. This is what modern scholars argue about: to what extent do the Gospels contain a nucleus of historical material and to what extent are they post-historical embellishments? There's a range of opinions on this even among secular scholars.
(3) Morality doesn't need to be God-based in order to be valid. As Sam Harris has pointed out, it doesn't take a passage in a holy book to convince anyone that murder is wrong. Murder is wrong simply because if everybody went around murdering everybody else, modern society would collapse. As a non-theist, I think of basic morality as a group of sociological principles upon which society is based. In the same way that we all have a capacity for language but speak different languages, we all have the capacity for morality but develop different variations on the same theme depending on culture, upbringing, etc.
(4) Like you (I think), I'm non-theist in some respects and agnostic in others. When it comes to knowing anything about the existence of a metaphysical world beyond the natural world, I'm ambivalent. Maybe a meta-universe exists (where God dwells?) and maybe it doesn't. I just don't know, so in this respect, I'm agnostic. However, when it comes to any historically conditioned understanding of God (be it Greek, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, etc.) I fall squarly on the side of non-belief. So, in this respect I'm a non-theist.
Finally, thanks for having the courage to write about this topic. Judging from the number of responses you've received, you've struck a chord. That's what writing is supposed to do. Good for you. And remember, geology rocks ;-)
@Don, truthfully, It expected this piece to sink. Surprisingly, it's garnered a lot of unexpected traffic - most of it coming from HP and emails. It's been emailed to others. Yes, I do accept that NT has some historical value and I'm pretty sure that JC was based on someone.
Here's an interesting youtube video you might find fascinating if you haven't seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI
Long live the milk jug!
@Don. Brilliant video! Guess where it's going! My fb page... :)
Hi Sophia . Im sorry to hear that you are beying judjed for beying an atheist . I live in europe and i think the majority of europeens are atheists . Ofc not on paper but people dont even bother to talk about it . Especialy between the younger people if we talk about god we are beying looked weired at and evoided . America for some reason stays stuck in time . Here we dont even have to explain ourself why we dont believe couse its a boring subject . Atleast i talk about the rich countries in europe couse for some reason in the poor countries religion still dominates . I wonder if thats why this countries stayed poor :P . Anyway i admire you for expressing ur feelings . And i totaly agree with you but this is a sensitive subject not for atheists but for the believers and they would allways try to convince you that you are wrong . Lets not become like them and try to convince them that we are right . That would make us no better and it will drain us of energy . Lets use that energy for usefull stuff . Dont forget that there are a huuuuuuuge number of people agreeing with what you are saying and you are not alone . On my opinion religion was used as a weapon and in time religion would fade away . Like it allready does. Good luck to you and i hope you gonna visit europe someday :D .
God bless you whahahahaha im joking
@Rozza, I'm a dual German/South Africa citizen, and came to the States seven years ago from England. I'm accustomed to living in a secular environment. I wrote the above article for Americans because they truly believe that Atheists are born of the devil. I have never encountered anything like it in my life!
Jesus did not exist? You sure?
I've read everything on that and it is pure speculation.
There are little to no records of Jesus for the same reason there are none of individual meaningless peasants of Ancient Greece. Socrates is only recorded through Plato but I doubt you argue he was made up.
Jesus' followers were fishermen, not scholars. They probably wrote the Gospels years after his crucifixion because they thought he'd return in their life time so they made a record before they too died. It's that simple.
@Jzahuta. I'm sure that there was a person on whom the myth of a God was based. However, the person as described in the bible and as described by the church? No, he didn't exist. As you said, 'Jesus' followers were fishermen, not scholars." Yup, they were gullible, uneducated, prone to superstition, etc.
"I'm sure that there was a person on whom the myth of a God was based" - there, you just admitted he did exist in some form, even if not God.
But going with your argument, Socrates didn't exist either then, sorry. I can't trust Plato or his co-students.
@jzahut. Get an academic education. The two sentences do not mean a same thing. I do not deny in the least that a man by the name of Jesus (or a similar name) existed. What I am denying is that a man named Jesus who was a God existed. There is a vast difference in the meaning of the sentences. This conversation is closed.
Hi:)
Interesting that you think that you would suffer for admitting to disbelief. Is that because you are in the USA?
I am agnostic. I cannot be sure that there is no God and I know people who have had supernatural experiences, so I remain undecided as to what, exactly, is going on.
However, I do not believe that God, if God actually exists, is anything like the figure described in the Bible. Furthermore, I doubt very much indeed that Jesus is, or was, God or Son of God. Indeed, as you say, there is no proof that he even existed.
It is possible that he was real, of course ~ and I have been looking into this for some hubs that I am working on ~ but, again, if he did exist, I do not think that it was quite as he is interpreted by most Christians.
And, yes, I have heard, many times, that agnostics are much more knowledgeable about the Bible than are Believers. I imagine that the same is true of atheists.
Trish, yes, I was shocked when I moved to the USA. Here atheists are considered worse than anything else. One is a pariah. Very different from the UK or Europe, or even South Africa where one's personal beliefs are one's own business.
That really is hard to understand.
The more I have come across American Christianity, the more perplexed I have become about it.
Many of my friends and relatives are Christian, and certainly some similar behaviour can be seen at times, but not generally ~ as you say, for the most part, 'one's personal beliefs are one's own business'.
I was, though, told that I shall be refused entry to Heaven, by St Peter, and that I shall endure eternity in the fiery furnace, which isn't nice ~ and certainly seemed inappropriate at the time, as I was only about 12 :)
Like you, I was also well-versed in the Bible. As a Jehovah's Witness, I attended Bible study twice a week. I have since studied evolution, and come to realise, that far from being a theory, it is actually fact, based on a huge amount of evidence. Yet, despite this, evolution is believed by only a very small minority or people in the world, less than 2% according to recent statistics. Even in the US, studies estimate that approximately only 9% of people accept evolution, and over 50% believe the universe to be only 6,000 years old. I find it amazing, that over a century of scientific discovery has not changed people's beliefs.
At the dawn of the 21st century, in many parts of the world, religion is coming to have more and more influence, socially and politically. Even in Western Europe, evangelical Christianity is growing at an alarming rate, and the number of muslims in the UK has increased by 500,000 in the past four years alone. So religion, which once seemed to be on the decline is actually more important than it has been for decades. Even the new government has stated that religion should play a greater role in society. And the head of the Equalities Commission has given his support to religious believers and has criticised atheism.
We seem to be at a point, when the age of the Enlightenment is coming to its close, and belief in religion or the supernatural is filling its place. Intelligent Design theory is also gaining in popularity. I really do believe the likes of Richard Dawkins have a losing fight on their hands, and this worries me.
Even the NHS, which normally demands strict testing of medication before it can be used on people now prescribes some alternative unproven therapies, without them being tested. This is I believe an indication that science is no longer seen as a worthy field of study, and that it is unable to provide the answers. More people now have faith in tarot card readers and mediums than they do in scientists. This is very sad. However, I am a realist and recognise that religion is never going to go away, and that my atheism and belief in evolution will only ever be a minority one, and that the supernatural is more real to most people than any evidence science can provide.
What particularly worries me is that the growing influence of religion is of a fundamentalist nature. In Britain, churches were once shutting their doors due to lack of believers, yet now there is a huge demand for new churches, because of the growing evangelical movement. This has its origins in the growing influence of African Christianity in this country, which often has a history of intolerance, especially towards the gay community. I fear that freedoms won in liberal Western Europe will be lost if this kind of fundamentalism continues to grow. Even within the Church of England, the growing evangelical movement is beginning to change its relatively liberal form of Christianity. The voices of the religious are getting louder, and those of the atheist and evolutionist are being drowned out.
As much at it pains me to admit it, I recognise that the future probably belongs to the religious, not to the atheist or evolutionist. Already, I feel very unsure of myself when people have asked me what my religion is. I fear what the reaction will be if I admit to my atheism. If all the evidence which exists is not enough to convince people of the reality of evolution, then I doubt anything ever will. People need religion, and science will never be allowed to get in the way of them believing what they need to.
No, Sherlock. People do not need religion. It has always been the ages of enlightenment that have given us civilization. When we begin to subscribe to superstition (which is what ALL religion is), then we begin to move towards the dark ages.
The real issue is financial inequality and desperation. If the state does not provide people with a solid education and with the opportunity to earn a respectable living in a non-stressful way, then people begin to drift towards religion because they are desperate for help and the kind of information that will lead them towards that goal.
I think the 50s and 60s stand out as the golden years of western civilization. It also stands out as the years when money was more equally divided than it ever had been, before or since.
Excellent hub, needs more recognition, all very true and I think that the religious need to know these facts/considerations. Religion is on the decline now as I'm sure you are well aware, the world will be better without it, we can form morals that benefit all humans & begin establishing our utopia. Well done on this hub.
Thanks,
Philanthropy!
Thank you Philanthropy. Your kind comments are much appreciated. ;)
"The fact that there is such bitter resentment against evolution is not because there's insufficient evidence for evolution. At this point, it's pretty solid."
Science is not measured in units of 'solid.' ;)
Try defending a dissertation with the conclusion "it's pretty solid."
It's interesting that science was 'pretty solid' on geocentric astronomy until Copernicus came along. By the way, Copernicus was a Catholic priest. oops.
nicomp, your comment is pretty childish. I take it you believe in God.
I'll stop commenting. No worries.
nicomp, no need to stop commenting. but you know as well as I do that I wouldn't defend a dissertation with the words, "It's pretty solid." This is NOT a dissertation, and I'm not speaking to scientists but to people who use language colloquially.
Sadly, there is a myth going around, in certain Christian circles, that there is no real 'solid' evidence for evolution. This isn't true, of course, but it is repeated ad nauseum ~ and it is believed, even by some highly educated people. It's incomprehensible to me that this myth endures in the face of evidence to the contrary ~ yet it does.
Yup, Trish, I just had someone say that to me on another hub. And it's probably only going to get worse...
Is there any point in attempting to counter it, I wonder :)
Trish M, why would you try? There is absolutely no way you can. Remember that I probably know the bible about a 100 times better than you ever will.
But not all Christians are against evolution ~ many accept it.
Trish_M. Tha is absolutely true. In the 50s and 60s, one was taught that each of the seven days in the bible was equivalent to an eon, rather than 24 hours. It was also taught that the 7 days were the exact order in which 'creation' took place.
This is a great post. I as well as many friends my age have had long discussions about religion and its effects on society. And it wasn't until this year after meeting a great friend who resides in England that the topic of God's existence became a major subject of conversation. While I do feel that there is a higher power out there, it's becoming increasingly difficult to suggest that the God that Christians worship is the only power. In addition, it was my reading of the bible that caused me to openly question the many contradictions that I came across.
A great friend in Denmark once asked me a very intriguing question. She said "if we could make it so that half of the people you know were raised throughout life without any religion, how many of them would accept the story of Christianity if you presented it to them right now?"
Further, I think we can all agree to a certain extent, that there can be no firm agreement that the scripture are the truth mainly because we know that some of them were most likely edited to some degree. And let's not forget the Council of Nicea. That alone is enough for any rational person to question a lot of things. And what makes Jesus the truth and Odin and Zeus nothing but myths?
Sophia, it is a shame to hear about the negative treatment that you've received here in the United States, supposedly the land of freedom of speech and expression. I must admit that at times, my fellow Americans are not very accepting of those who see things differently than we do. But you also have to remember, Americans are not known for traveling much outside of the U.S. and seeing that not everyone lives like we do. I for one, have no problem with anyone whether atheist, agnostic, a theist, etc. And I also feel that morals can be had without religion.
Now am I totally against religion? Not at all, but I am against the brainwashing and hypocritical nature of those who practice religion. I think it is necessary to openly question it without having to receive backlash from those who willing believe everything without thinking it through. As of right now, I'm still a christian, but I don't go to church nor preach to those around me and I have a lot of serious questions about my faith these days. But unlike the majority of Christians, I don't condemn anyone who was not raised to believe the same thing as I do or anyone who chooses not to follow it. Perhaps if more of us could have an open mind about religion and its share of problems, then maybe we could really find answers to the questions that we all have if any. But to tell someone to accept something because that's what a "book" says is counterproductive to learning about any topic.
Gerard0779. Garard, thank you for a great response. :)
Great hub. Never thought the percentage of American Atheists would be 1.6. I'm from the UK and not one of my friends believes in God. Certainly would be more arguments if they did haha.
Wirelessguitar. I think it might depend on where you stay and what sort of people you gravitate towards. :)
Hi
May I say how refreshing and impressive I think Gerard's comments are! :)
Trish, precisely. I left Gerard's comments because they are those of an open minded, thinking human being. :)
A terrific post Sophia obviously touching on a very personal subject. I read a book and I believe it was called "Why Bad Things Happen to Good People" written by a Rabbi no less.
In the book he used a logical approach in questioning how God could allow bad things to happen. An airplane loses a wing, crashes and all 204 lives are lost. Families of those lost wail and lament....How could God have allowed this? The investigation shows that several key welds in the wing had stress cracks, apparently missed in routine inspection. The welds finally gave, the wing broke off and the plane did a nose dive into the dirt.
It was a good read. I remember years ago I was attending a Baptist church and was on the church softball team. Before the first game started I was stunned when in a team prayer - the leader of the prayer asked God - to help us win. I remember thinking - if the other team is praying the same prayer, God is going to let someone down.
You are quite right - if you are speaking with a Christian and you are anything else and the topic comes up - you get the look as if you are less than.
My dad never liked attending church. In his gruff (but likely accurate) manner he said often he had an issue being with hypocrites who beat their wives during the week and then showed up on Sunday to ask for forgiveness.
I am not intellectual enough to know the answer to my own question, but what gives with the Catholic confessional? I never got the whole hidden thing.
I'm on the fence but this post has created a great deal of new thought on the subject. Thank you!
Mykuljay, the book was published more than two decades ago. I read it at the time. It's by Rabbi Kuchner and was a study of the old testament book, Ecclesiastes. That was the book supposedly written by Solomon.
"No Scientific Proof for the Existence of Jesus"
Do you mean Jesus as god or Jesus as a physical human being?
Atheist anthony, if you are an atheist, you are indeed asking questions as a believer would. Are you just pretending to be an atheist. I mean that there is not one bit of evidence that Jesus (as described in the New Testament) ever existed. There exists, of course, the man upon whom the story was based.
Atheists don't ask the kind of questions that you do. I don't believe you're an atheist.
It is probably the head of the Essenes who was the leader of a group of Essenes living outside Jerusalem and who had a council of 12, and where the leader was killed. The story was widely circulated by scholars after the Dead Sea scrolls were found. They the Vatican got so upset that it demanded the Dead Sea Scrolls and that section has never been heard of again - until the late 70s when two scholars looked at photographs of the pieces and translated from there. UCLA then sold photographs of the entire section for $1 to anyone who wanted them. And the guy wasn't God; he was a man.
Sophia Angelique, I liked your hub and it got some good comments!
I am not sure about the term "atheist." It has a negative connotation. Any ideas for a new term?
I know this is such a tricky, delicate subject to discuss with many people. It is truly difficult for both sides: some friends are worried about their friends going to hell and pity them --and some friends are worried their friends are insane or delusional. And pity them.
I'm not sure what the answer is, (well, I know what is true.. But then again, they probably do too) but I know that most important is that the debate is good.
Being able to talk freely is so important and we are very lucky to be able to do that without too much grief.
Ciel, you ask a very difficult question. Sometimes there just isn't an easy way to say something. I only wrote this article because I seem to spend a lot of time having to deflect people who are 'witnessing' to me. These days, I just send them this link and I don't have to spend any more time speaking to them.
I don't want to hurt feelings. Everybody has the right to believe what they like without having to defend what they believe. By the same token, nobody has the right to set out to influence others to believe what they believe - just because they believe it.
No, there isn't an easy answer. I moved to the Midwest USA 8-9 years ago and am still constantly surprised by people assuming that since I look and speak like them I must have their same beliefs.
It boggles my mind and takes much away from this lovely place and the lovely people who live here.
Hi :)
Regarding Jesus, there is no proof, and only unreliable evidence, that he ever existed at all.
Ciel, I basically struggle with the entire American experience because of that! :)
Trish, no there isn't. It all comes - directly, or indirectly - from the Vatican or from the Greek Orthodox Church. Both sources are obviously biased.
It's a fascinating subject, though :)
Trish, you know, once upon a time I was fascinated by it because I need to find answers, and it took me a very, very long time to find those answers - more than 50 years. Now, I have little interest in this. The reason I wrote the piece was because so many people insist on witnessing to me about Jesus Christ. It seems that it doesn't occur to them that I could possibly have heard what they have to say a million times before and that I truly do not have the energy, time, inclination to spend on debating the topic with them. So these days, I just give them this link and they can read it. After they've read it, nobody comes back to me... :)
Hi Sophie :)
Yes, I have been debating these issues for over 40 years, and I am not interested in being witnessed to, either, but I am still fascinated by religion, and all that goes with it.
I am fascinated by the way a man, who may never have even existed, or who may have existed as a very different person from the one described to us, can have so much influence in the modern world.
I suppose that it's because I love history ~ and I do also seem to have a passion for theological matters. This really confuses my devout friends and relatives. :)
I am also bemused at the way loyalty to the Bible seems to cause some people to ignore obvious scientific facts.
Trish, I think within many of us exists a mystic core. I know that there is definitely one within me, and it is probably the reason why I so desperately needed the answers. I also think that some people are able to ignore obvious contradictions, and still other people so desperately want to believe because it comforts them in some way, that they also turn a blind eye to anything that contradicts. For me, that was impossible.
At this point, I have made piece with the unknown. I 'know' that there is an enormous 'element of life' that infiltrates everything and that it's possible to sense. I also 'know' that there are 'entities' that we cannot see with our eyes because our eyes do not encompass that range. I'm easy with the fact these days that whatever will be, will be. :)
And, yes, I think Jesus was based on a man that once lived but is very far from the real person. It's like the game of whispers. The tale grew with each retelling...
There is so much that we don't really know.
I have been described as a spiritual seeker ~ by my, then, parish priest. I rather like that title :)
Trish, :)
The Suburban Poet Level 7 Commenter 16 months ago
Much of what you say makes sense but then you fall into the old atheist ego trip with the following:
* Atheists know more about the bible than Christians do. In fact, they know more about religion than religious people do. In any religious ‘test’, atheists come out tops.
* Atheists have a higher I.Q. than people who are religious. In fact, there is a direct correlation between degree of religion and I.Q.
Why go there? I know some incredibly accomplished Christians... There is no doubt that Christians can be too aggressive, to judgemental and too cock-sure about their beliefs. Atheists seem to be the same in their own way.
That's why I tend to avoid both groups....